Comments on: Bruce W. Wayne

By: william

william — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 06:51:33 +0000

I think you’re wrong about Serenity, though. It wasn’t well-intentioned meddling in _other_ people’s societies, it was about well intentioned meddling in our own. The evil of the Alliance is that they think they can “make people better.” That’s what our own governments do: don’t drink, don’t smoke, eat less. Bush wasn’t, so far as I can tell, trying to make Iraqis better, he was trying to make their government better. Or at least different.

By: Andrew R

Andrew R — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:02:13 +0000

In fact, Batman locks the door against Gordon at one point, when the Joker reveals that Rachel Dawes is a potential victim. Batman knows he’s about to cross a line. (Although, in fact, the Joker is only too keen to spill his false info)

The other strong parallel is the extraordinary rendition. I think someone actually says “of course, we can’t kidnap him from China…” Hint. Hint. Again, it’s OK to break the rules if you do it deniably.

I’m trying to think of counter-arguments to the pro-Bush thesis. The only one that springs to mind comes from the finale: hostages dressed as clowns, villains as hostages. Batman ends up fighting cops because they (ordered by Gordon) are charging in, guns blazing. You could argue the moral here is anti-profiling: you can’t ID the bad guys by appearance.

Yeah, I’m not convinced either…

By: PooterGeek

PooterGeek — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:42:26 +0000

One of the most interesting things about the film is that the people of Gotham identify with Batman the vigilante, indeed, a running joke is that so many of them choose to dress up as him. Batman wants to inspire the people, but finds himself embarrassed by imitators. The Joker wants to expose the people’s flaws, but is frustrated by good citizens.

The torture parallel is one of the strongest resemblances between the behaviour of the US government and the Gotham city administration. You’re right: Commissioner Gordon doesn’t do the torturing; instead he invites Batman into the interview room to spend quality time with The Joker. (Then, later, one of Gordon’s men tries to have a go himself.)

By: hypnojop

hypnojop — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:20:29 +0000

I think it’s a convincing argument - to a point. But isn’t it integral to the whole message of Batman that a vigilante can do things the governing body can’t, precisely because he’s a vigilante? (This point is frequently raised and questioned throughout Batman’s comics history). I think the argument would carry a lot more weight if it was Commissioner Gordon doing the torturing etc and such actions were sanctioned by the authorities (and doesn’t Joker escape police custody at the end cos that fat dumb cop can’t keep his fists to himself? That seems like a fairly clear message to me…)

By: Chris

Chris — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:38:07 +0000

Thanks for this. Reading the critics had put me off, even when - in fact, sometimes epecially when - they were praising its message. Not that I mind messages, but some of them had made it sound like, at best, an episode of Battlestar Galactica (at worse, like a recent episode of Robin Hood or Doctor Who).

By: Andrew R

Andrew R — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:51:18 +0000

For me, it’s Lucius Fox’s utterly feeble stand against the BatTV that epitomises the film’s politics: “This is wrong. No man should have this much power. I won’t work for you while you have this machine. Never, never, never….Well, just this once. But only because the Joker is really bad.” That’s the nearest we get to principled opposition: straight arrow Harvey Dent is a big fan of Batman and Lt Gordon ignores clear orders to arrest the vigilante on sight - all before the Joker begins his crazed reign of terror.

Weren’t the Joker’s sob stories deliberately contradictory? I though both were explanations of how he got his scars: self-inflicted in one version, his drunk dad in the other. So definitely not be relied on.

The Joker’s denial of his responsibility for the carnage takes another beating when we see his reaction to the outbreak of morality on the ferries: he produces a third detonator and prepares to blow them up himself.

So yeah. Great film, dodgy message. Oh, and until now, I didn’t even question the hospital scene. It just completely convinced me they blew up an enormous building.